Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

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Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:46 pm

Koenig wrote:Were are making progress, lets keep at it!

BY a flat world, I literally mean a flat world:

This design would lend itself well to the mythological vibe, and would allow for a lot of creativity.
Ooooohhhh, I am loving that idea! but we can still have mountains and stuff right?

Koenig wrote:As for harpooning, it sounds like a must for large game fishing and we could build on it and turn it into combat mechanic in some situations (Moby Dick, Sea Monster, Cthulhu, etc)
You want to put cthulhu in? Isn't he kinda in enough games or something? I'm kinda on the fence about cthulu... But the harpoon for the bigger stuff I'm totally on board.

Koenig wrote:Back to Steamlords: based on the mythological setting, I will have to revise a lot about them as they were originally based in a science faction setting. That said, I would still like to keep them as a master of science/magic in your world if that is alright with you.
Well, alot of the technology in this game will be steam powered, that's what I plan on. you can still keep the science/magic stuff in there.

Koenig wrote:Speaking of which, what should we call our "world" for the time being? The final version can be changed and the name of the game is inconsequential, but it would be very useful to know what we should call it when discussing its design.
I was thinking 'Curousi' or 'Curioso'. it come from the spanish word for curious.

Koenig wrote:If you plan on making the game like Skyrim, I highly recommend implementing the use of First Person an option. The more detailed and interactive you make an environment, the more control the player needs. In terms of selecting objects to interact with, First Person is often the best way to go. (mine-craft is a great example of this) That said, I suggest you add Zelda-like tools to substitute double jumping and navigation. Things like ropes, grapples, climbing shoes, and explosives would make a lot of sense for exploration uses.
Hmmm... Yes, an option 1st person view does sound good. I know the control might be different if we put an option to change the POV. For example, if we made the game like psychonauts or Super mario 64 with the 3rd person perspective, that'll give the player a free roaming control. But if we change it to play like skyrim or fallout 3 with a 1st person perspective that will give them a different control. I think both of the controls schemes could actually work and we should put in an option that will allow to play the game in either way.

Koenig wrote:Another Question: Why kind of musical score are you gravitating towards? I can only assume a high sea vibe will factor in.
Not really sure yet, but I'm thinking orchestral. Or Legend with an acoustic guitar for some parts, not entirely sure yet.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Cybersix on Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:59 pm

*sells plans to Square Enix*
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:05 pm

That won't do you any good. Square hates awesome stuff.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:03 am

^^LOL

Anyways: Of course, just because the world is flat does not mean that we can't have some good geometry.

As for Cthulu, I mentioned him mostly as a joke, that said I do think he could be a good addition as a boss. (Has yet to play a game that has him included*)

Then Ill keep the Steamlords (or their renamed counterparts) masters of science.

Curousi sounds interesting, though I will have to give it some thought before I am completely sold on it.

In regards to controls, we could probably make so that general movement would be done in third person, but interaction and tool use was done in first person. This would give the player the mobility they need, while providing the accuracy when doing specific tasks.

I allways love good music; but I can't quiet picture imagine what you have in mind yet. Do you have any examples? Throwing in my own two cents, I highly recomend a cross between Kirkhope-like music and Neo Victorian.

(Example of neo victorian ship music)


As a secondary thought, would you be interested in putting Curousi inside another story universe I am working on? The mythical setting lends itself very well to one of the "Worlds" I have been intending to create.
The concept is "Septimundi" Or poetically translated; "Seven Worlds" Three worlds represent the primary "Laws" (Magic, Science, and Soul) Three more worlds represent the twilight where the former overlap (Curousi would fit into the world in the twilight of Magic and Science) And on final world represents the equilibrium where all 3-6 worlds overlap. If you think it would work, Curousi would remain its own self contained game within the "Twilight world" so that nothing would be given away, but we could build off it at a later time.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:46 am

Victorian Kirkhope... That sound like it has potential
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:23 am

Koenig wrote:As a secondary thought, would you be interested in putting Curousi inside another story universe I am working on? The mythical setting lends itself very well to one of the "Worlds" I have been intending to create.
The concept is "Septimundi" Or poetically translated; "Seven Worlds" Three worlds represent the primary "Laws" (Magic, Science, and Soul) Three more worlds represent the twilight where the former overlap (Curousi would fit into the world in the twilight of Magic and Science) And on final world represents the equilibrium where all 3-6 worlds overlap. If you think it would work, Curousi would remain its own self contained game within the "Twilight world" so that nothing would be given away, but we could build off it at a later time.
Hmmmm... I'll have to give it some thought, the game is not really all that focused on magic, actually I don't know if it is in the game (alchemy maybe). You can use it for your novel if you want, just as long as you don't change anything major, that should be fine. I'm getting sleepy, We'll discuss more of this tomorrow.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:18 pm

Fire away when ready!

PS: Fun fact! Alchemy is actually real, and its science!
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:42 pm

Ok, then alchemy shall be part of the crafting system of the game.

I'm intrigue with the story idea. But just to clarify, this is the same Courosi world, just your take on it with your story, and my take on it with the game, right?

Also, Im not sure about the magic... Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna rule that out seeing how there's a bunch of mythical creatures in there, I just don't want to make spells for the player. I want the player to be more self reliant. We can have magic without spells, right?
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:36 pm

smirkytrick wrote:Ok, then alchemy shall be part of the crafting system of the game.

I'm intrigue with the story idea. But just to clarify, this is the same Courosi world, just your take on it with your story, and my take on it with the game, right?

Also, Im not sure about the magic... Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna rule that out seeing how there's a bunch of mythical creatures in there, I just don't want to make spells for the player. I want the player to be more self reliant. We can have magic without spells, right?
In standard science, alchemy is possible via nuclear fission or fusion.

As far as my story goes, think Iron man to Spideman. They are both their own self contained series, but they exist in the same universe and can share themes or characters as needed. That said, Septimundi technically be a set of universes; one of which just so happens to be Courosi.

mag does not have to be a huge factor to the game, but I do think it would make sense in explaining the game (Flying islands and a flat world for exmaple)
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:04 pm

Hhhmmm... I was thinking for alchemy, we could just get some elements and make stuff with them. like making gun powder, gold, etc. We don't have to make it entirely scientifically accurate. right?

Okay, I understand what you mean with the universe and stuff. But first we have to make the world of Courosi.

The World and its elements are magical, is pretty much what your saying right? cause that might give us a creative edge.

Also here is an idea I had, What if we create the animals/creature and don't give them any specific names, and let the player name the creatures, or talk to the people of a nearby village/city to identify the creature and the player could document it in this notebook/journal.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:27 pm

smirkytrick wrote:Hhhmmm... I was thinking for alchemy, we could just get some elements and make stuff with them. like making gun powder, gold, etc. We don't have to make it entirely scientifically accurate. right?
So cross between chemistry and alchemy? Provided it magic fits into the story on some level, it sounds good to me.
smirkytrick wrote:
Okay, I understand what you mean with the universe and stuff. But first we have to make the world of Courosi.
If you approve of the Septimundi integration, then the world of Courosi would represent the point in the universe where Magic and Science are in an equilibrium. Neither has a definitive advantage over each other and subsequently they can both be used effectively.
smirkytrick wrote:
The World and its elements are magical, is pretty much what your saying right? cause that might give us a creative edge.
If based on the prior points, then yes.
smirkytrick wrote:
Also here is an idea I had, What if we create the animals/creature and don't give them any specific names, and let the player name the creatures, or talk to the people of a nearby village/city to identify the creature and the player could document it in this notebook/journal.
That sounds like a great idea to me. We could also develop a few specific creatures (or throw them into the randomization aspect) that the players could specifically name...for better or worse...
*Gives Mazer a long glare*
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:47 pm

Keonig wrote:If you approve of the Septimundi integration, then the world of Courosi would represent the point in the universe where Magic and Science are in an equilibrium. Neither has a definitive advantage over each other and subsequently they can both be used effectively.
Ok, I approve. This sounds like a good idea to me.

Keonig wrote:That sounds like a great idea to me. We could also develop a few specific creatures (or throw them into the randomization aspect) that the players could specifically name...for better or worse...
*Gives Mazer a long glare*
Do you think we should add a censor thing for the names just in case?
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:02 pm

smirkytrick wrote:
Keonig wrote:If you approve of the Septimundi integration, then the world of Courosi would represent the point in the universe where Magic and Science are in an equilibrium. Neither has a definitive advantage over each other and subsequently they can both be used effectively.
Ok, I approve. This sounds like a good idea to me.

Keonig wrote:That sounds like a great idea to me. We could also develop a few specific creatures (or throw them into the randomization aspect) that the players could specifically name...for better or worse...
*Gives Mazer a long glare*
Do you think we should add a censor thing for the names just in case?
Not unless we turn the game into an MMO. The only people who will encounter bad names are the ones who created them. That said, if we include sharing content (IE if we used something like mii-verse) some words would have to be censored.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:04 pm

Koenig wrote:
smirkytrick wrote:
Keonig wrote:If you approve of the Septimundi integration, then the world of Courosi would represent the point in the universe where Magic and Science are in an equilibrium. Neither has a definitive advantage over each other and subsequently they can both be used effectively.
Ok, I approve. This sounds like a good idea to me.

Keonig wrote:That sounds like a great idea to me. We could also develop a few specific creatures (or throw them into the randomization aspect) that the players could specifically name...for better or worse...
*Gives Mazer a long glare*
Do you think we should add a censor thing for the names just in case?
Not unless we turn the game into an MMO. The only people who will encounter bad names are the ones who created them. That said, if we include sharing content (IE if we used something like mii-verse) some words would have to be censored.
The game is definitely not going to be a mmo. Still, I don't know if we should do shared content and/or online co-op, what do you think?
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:14 pm

Due to the game's random nature, single player would be ideal. Multiplayer is possible, but it would only be fun in very specific situations.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:35 pm

Ok, I see what you mean. But I don't wanna scrap it just yet. I wanna shelve it for now and see what we can do with it later on.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:51 pm

We could probably unlock multiplayer specific games within the game itself. Fleshed out minigames or minature sports. Further integration is possible, but should be considered after we have a solid feel for the single player.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:55 pm

Koenig wrote:We could probably unlock multiplayer specific games within the game itself. Fleshed out minigames or minature sports. Further integration is possible, but should be considered after we have a solid feel for the single player.
Yeah, we should definitely focus more on the single player. But I strongly disagree about the minigames for multiplayer. But had other ideas for multiplayer, but for now let's just focus on single player.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:24 am

What kind of design do you have in mind for the ships? I think it would be best if they a visually distinguishable from each other at a seconds glance; reflecting the technology (Or magic) that goes into their design.

For examaple: I have been working the impression that Sea faring ships would resemble their historical counterparts.



While airships have a heavy fantasy-cross-steampunk vibe



And submarines would resemble ships like the nautilus.



Granted; I know that a ship tpye would not be limited to one particular aesthetic design, but it would make sense to have each type of ship based on a specefic methodology. For example (And note this is just a suggestion)
Seafaring ships are based on buoyancy and staying afloat, Airships are based on lighter than air and are more focused on combating the wind, Submarines are based on airtight designs and motor movement.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:32 am

Could we implement "Quest Points" or "Points Tree" into the games design? By this I mean a system that keeps track of your progress via tallying points; Completing specific tasks or story segments would add points to your characters reputation or skillset, subsequently afecting your relations with other characters, groups, and powers in the world. For example, a kingdom or Nation might want help to deliver a very valuable item/document but they don't have anyone to transport it for them. A player with a point score of < 30 might volunteer for the job, but would a powerful Nation really trust a nobody with a rowboat from a backwards island with their their future riding in the balance? Probably not...

That said, what if the player had 300 points, and subsequently a theoretical reputation to go along with the ranking. The Nation might take an offer from such a player.

Likewise, there is no particular reason that the points have to be limited to an all encompassing repuatation; they could instead (or also) be distributed into skill sets such as exploring, fishing, bounty hunting, etc.

A fisherman's guild would probably not have any interest in a player with 100 + bounty points, and 0 fishing points; but on the flip-side, a group being plagued by pirates or trouble makers would jump at the opportunity to have such a player at their services (And vise verse)
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:07 pm

Koenig wrote:What kind of design do you have in mind for the ships? I think it would be best if they a visually distinguishable from each other at a seconds glance; reflecting the technology (Or magic) that goes into their design.

For examaple: I have been working the impression that Sea faring ships would resemble their historical counterparts.



While airships have a heavy fantasy-cross-steampunk vibe



And submarines would resemble ships like the nautilus.



Granted; I know that a ship tpye would not be limited to one particular aesthetic design, but it would make sense to have each type of ship based on a specefic methodology. For example (And note this is just a suggestion)
Seafaring ships are based on buoyancy and staying afloat,  Airships are based on lighter than air and are more focused on combating the wind, Submarines are based on airtight designs and motor movement.
Ok, the pirate ship seems to be right, but I'm having some issues about the air ship and sub. The air ship should be more old fashion, ya know like a blimp with propellers or something. And I'm not sure about the size of the sub, the steampunk style fits fine, I was just picturing a smaller sub.

Koenig wrote:Could we implement "Quest Points" or "Points Tree" into the games design? By this I mean a system that keeps track of your progress via tallying points; Completing specific tasks or story segments would add points to your characters reputation or skillset, subsequently afecting your relations with other characters, groups, and powers in the world. For example, a kingdom or Nation might want help to deliver a very valuable item/document but they don't have anyone to transport it for them.  A player with a point score of < 30 might volunteer for the job, but would a powerful Nation really trust a nobody with a rowboat from a backwards island with their their future riding in the balance? Probably not...
You been playing too much CIV. in the game you're just a guy that's trying to go on an adventure and make a living, you have to start small. You don't get the pirate ships right away. You gotta earn them or build them. The simplest and easiest of these vessel is the row boat. But you're right, They're not exactly sea worthy. Maybe we should give the vessels their own HP.
As for the quest points, That's not a bad idea. The same with the crew's trusting thing. But the thing is when it comes to getting people for your crew, it should be about getting the trust of the crew members, not the nation.

Koenig wrote:That said, what if the player had 300 points, and subsequently a theoretical reputation to go along with the ranking. The Nation might take an offer from such a player.

Likewise, there is no particular reason that the points have to be limited to an all encompassing repuatation; they could instead (or also) be distributed into skill sets such as exploring, fishing, bounty hunting, etc.

A fisherman's guild would probably not have any interest in a player with 100 + bounty points, and 0 fishing points; but on the flip-side, a group being plagued by pirates or trouble makers would jump at the opportunity to have such a player at their services (And vise verse)
I don't know why, but this is starting to sound like Fable. I don't think I like the idea that much. It's just that the game is all about you going on an adventure either alone or with a crew, not fixing a nation's dilemma or anything like war.

Look Keonig, I gotta be honest with you, it's just that it seems like your focused more on the story rather than the game. I'm not mad or anything, it just that we're kinda getting off topic here with the nations conflict and stuff.
If it helps, imagine the story of the game being similar to One Piece for now. I have my own story for this, but I just wanna work on the content and gameplay first before I show you my story.

About the reputations, I think it is a good idea, it'll give us a reason to make things a little more interesting with bounties and bounty hunters. And give the player to play as a good or bad guy.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:02 pm

Fail post on my part.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:33 pm

smirkytrick wrote:
Ok, the pirate ship seems to be right, but I'm having some issues about the air ship and sub. The air ship should be more old fashion, ya know like a blimp with propellers or something. And I'm not sure about the size of the sub, the steampunk style fits fine, I was just picturing a smaller sub.
The size of the ships can be scaled down accordingly, but I think it would be nice if the player could acquire larger ships later on in the game. As for airships, I am all for a lighter than air design; but I really don't want to see them devolve into nothing but blimps or boats with balloons. Though I certainly want to retain some of those aspects, and the ships can be low-tech (wooden build) but we have a level freedom in a creative world such as this, so we can make them look many different ways.

Perhaps these designs are more to your liking?





smirkytrick wrote:
You been playing too much CIV. in the game you're just a guy that's trying to go on an adventure and make a living, you have to start small. You don't get the pirate ships right away. You gotta earn them or build them. The simplest and easiest of these vessel is the row boat. But you're right, They're not exactly sea worthy. Maybe we should give the vessels their own HP.
As for the quest points, That's not a bad idea. The same with the crew's trusting thing. But the thing is when it comes to getting people for your crew, it should be about getting the trust of the crew members, not the nation. I don't know why, but this is starting to sound like Fable. I don't think I like the idea that much. It's just that the game is all about you going on an adventure either alone or with a crew, not fixing a nation's dilemma or anything like war...About the reputations, I think it is a good idea, it'll give us a reason to make things a little more interesting with bounties and bounty hunters. And give the player to play as a good or bad guy.
I am 100% behind starting out small, but I am suggesting the points as a way to keep track of the characters progress in the game. Think of the points like they were stars from Mario 64 but blocking off quests rather than parts of the world-subsequently enticing players to expand their infulence and improve themselves. However the points themselves don't represent a power source or odd number, but rather they are a visual presentation of the influence or reputation that the character has earned among those around him. The points give the aspect of rewarding the player for doing things and also preventing the player from screwing themselves over by biting off more than they can chew.

smirkytrick wrote:
Look Keonig, I gotta be honest with you, it's just that it seems like your focused more on the story rather than the game. I'm not mad or anything, it just that we're kinda getting off topic here with the nations conflict and stuff.
If it helps, imagine the story of the game being similar to One Piece for now. I have my own story for this, but I just wanna work on the content and gameplay first before I show you my story.
I am not actually trying to focus on the story, rather I am trying to create a gameplay foundation on which the story(s) will later be based on. The relationship between story and gameplay is ignored in far to many games these days, likewise context is an aspect that many developers have neglected to include.  I simply want to address these issues while we are still planning the games structure so that they can be properly integrated once we do focus on the story.  

Does that make any sense to you? I will admit now that I am not as good with words as I want to be.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by Koenig on Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:10 pm

Question: How will weather and currents factor in?

I can only assume the game will have them considering the possible uses that could be derived from them on both aesthetic and fundamental gameplay levels.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

Post by smirkytrick on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:07 pm

Koenig wrote:Question: How will weather and currents factor in?

I can only assume the game will have them considering the possible uses that could be derived from them on both aesthetic and fundamental gameplay levels.
I think we definitely should have them. I also think it should factor in how the ship handles. For example during a storm, windy, etc. But I'm not sure if we should add snow the the factor. What do you think?

Keonig wrote:I am not actually trying to focus on the story, rather I am trying to create a gameplay foundation on which the story(s) will later be based on. The relationship between story and gameplay is ignored in far to many games these days, likewise context is an aspect that many developers have neglected to include.  I simply want to address these issues while we are still planning the games structure so that they can be properly integrated once we do focus on the story.  

Does that make any sense to you? I will admit now that I am not as good with words as I want to be.
Okay, Now I understand... Sorry if I misunderstood, it's just that there's a lot going on right now, I have to study for the test, I have some homework that I need to do. And I also have to admit, I'm not so good with words myself, I guess I did kinda left out the story I had in mind, and poorly described what I had in mind.

I understand what you're doing now, you were trying to make sure the story and gameplay are equally proportioned. I have failed to see that... I apologize.

If it's alright with you, do you wanna hear my idea for the story? I think it actually might benefit us both in the creativity department.
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Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

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