My problems with Breath of The Wild

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My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by LegendX48 on Sun May 21, 2017 1:18 pm

Zelda rant in 3... 2...


The more time I spend thinking about it, BOTW is an incredibly weak game/Zelda. Unless you have a personal goal, and because of how aggressively disinterested and uncaring the game is about everything, BOTW is a game about nothing with nothing to really do (which is what I really disliked about Destiny). It's a game undeserving of the praise it's received most of the time.

The exploration can be fun, albeit very aimless, but there the game has it's own mechanics that actively discourage and work against it. Climbing has a large emphasis but the act of doing so is painfully slow and eats up stamina far too quickly. Climbing gear should not be necessary and hardly helps as it mainly bumps you up from painfully slow to just slow. Then there's the god damn rain that knows when you're about to start a climb. Good lord, the rain in this game is the worst thing imaginable. But stamina regen items and jumping!!?? Jumping drains boat loads of stamina for unsatisfactory results and generally isn't advisable unless you're right before a ledge or have stamina for days. You can carry three pages worth of healing items and many ingredients but, when push comes to shove, what are you most likely to be carrying around with you? Healing items and/or healing items with elemental resistances. That aside, though, I'm willing to grant stamina potions and such are a good defense here as everyone generally has at least something to make a couple here and there.

Some of my favorite moments are during certain cutscenes when the dialogue alludes to events that happened in the past (both BOTW's past and Zelda timeline past). I'm willing to grant that they would've had to compromise parts of the world they made if they had a stronger narrative, but, you know what? That would've been great. Perfect even. Just because you have something doesn't mean you need 100% of it at all times otherwise you dilute its value. Give us parts of the world but have Ganon take them away (either literally or just putting strong as hell enemies in them) until you can get in there and fight his influence off OR open up parts of the world as you free the divine beasts of his influence. As is, there are no stakes, no urgency, the characters in the game don't really give a shit and nothing has really degraded much since the events of the past (that we can actively find outside of a ruined Ranch and Hyrule castle town itself). Everything outside of Central Hyrule looks as if it even flourished somewhat. Now, it's nowhere near as bad as Skyward Sword in this regard as SS had that issue several magnitudes worse (God lost a war against the Devil and the entire world looks too cute for Disney World puke happy? Really?) but it's still somewhat of an issue here that could've been easily remedied in random areas but just including more ruined, dilapidated areas like the Ranch Ruins (which really speaks for itself when you find it). The general story has moments where it could've elevated the game but the general game design actively works against it. Seeing flashbacks of Zelda's struggle to be someone of value, someone that can contribute are strong but weakened considerably by the game's general disinterest outside of the tutorial. Speaking of Zelda, 117 years old and hasn't aged a day... How? Magic? The magic she was using to keep Ganon at bay? What?

The weapon degradation. No one's favorite feature, ever. Period. In my eyes, there is no defense for this, period. There's three weapon types (normal sword, two-hander, spear) with zero variation and low value. Found a cool new sword? It will shatter on a basic bokoblin. New Axe? Shatter on a tree. Every weapon breaks and breaks quickly with absolutely no way of repairing them and it's this point that makes it even more insufferable. You want to devalue all weapons, fine, but why is there no way to repair anything? You can't have a half a weapon degradation system without the other half in being able to repair them. The game has blacksmiths out in the world already, why not give them the ability to repair weapons before they break for a fee? It's just mind-numbingly stupid. Then there's the Master Sword, the one weapon that should be exempt from this rule simply because of what it is and... breaks on while fighting a single keese. For fuck's sake. THE MASTER SWORD BREAKS! What were they thinking! There's stupid and then there's advanced stupid. The sword of legend; the blade of evil's bane forged by God and strengthened three times over by holy fire and it shatters like a damn toothpick. "Oh, but it regenerates after 10 real world minutes, it's totally fine!" No, it really isn't. Objectively. A holy blade forged and strengthened by God shattering like a common junker blade? Are you fucking kidding? The game's excuse for this is that the sword has run out of power. Okay, so why not give us a sword that has actually run out of power by, you know having the sword run out of power? The Master Sword has a damage rating of 30 at any given time (unless around Guardians or Blight), why not have it go down to 15 and have it rusted instead of shattering like a toothpick? Why can't we just have a fucking sword that we can actually rely on? Just, ugh...
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by Koenig on Sun May 21, 2017 4:45 pm

I generally agree on many of these sentiments, although I disagree that the game is worse for it; in most ways BoTW is a sequel to the original Zelda, and nothing else, and as a fan of the later 3D installments of the series I found it disappointing by comparison to them; on its own merits however I found it to be a very fun game (Although I would still prefer a hybrid of the two styles). If I could get a game with the core aspects of BOTW, infused with the narrative and dungeon design of TP/OoT/MM/WW, It would be my game of the decade.

I will defend the weapon fragility, in part however, because it added a much needed aspect in terms of forcing the player to mix up their weapons and try new things; it is something that I have noticed in most games these days; as once you find a weapon you like, you never bother to use anything else ever again. BoTW forces you to keep using new weapons and throwing away old ones, which makes the combat far more interesting over extended periods of time. It is far from a perfect solution, but it is the best one I have seen so far. WITH THAT SAID; I do feel that the weapons are far far to fragile, perhaps 2-5x more fragile than they have any right to be.
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by LegendX48 on Sun May 21, 2017 5:02 pm

Forcing the player to switch up their weapons is not a good argument. If a player wants to try new things then they will, if they don't then they won't and will stick with only a single weapon type.

Starting with a sword that does 5 damage and then finding a spear that does 10+ damage is all you need to encourage experimenting with different weapon types. Finding new gear is always exciting. We don't need all of them to shatter like toothpicks to justify trying one of the 3 different types.
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by Koenig on Sun May 21, 2017 11:12 pm

LegendX48 wrote:Forcing the player to switch up their weapons is not a good argument. If a player wants to try new things then they will, if they don't then they won't and will stick with only a single weapon type.

Starting with a sword that does 5 damage and then finding a spear that does 10+ damage is all you need to encourage experimenting with different weapon types. Finding new gear is always exciting. We don't need all of them to shatter like toothpicks to justify trying one of the 3 different types.
I disagree, but I doubt anything I will change your mind on the matter.

As for the example you made, that is not a choice, that is a math problem with only one real answer; the 10+ is simply better the 5 sword, and practically no one ever will ever use the sword ever again. There would only be a few good weapons, and no weapons in the world would ever be worth using again. As I did say though, the weapons in BoTW did break far to quickly, which really hampered the experience.
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by LegendX48 on Sun May 21, 2017 11:29 pm

No one would continue using that sword, that's the point. The player will go for the stronger weapons which can/will be different types. BOTW does this already. And that is true, you won't be able to change my mind on this matter. It's a horrible system through and through.

But, even so, a weapon degradation system w/o a way to repair weapons is not how you go about making a proper weapon degradation system. It feels half-assed.
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by Koenig on Sun May 21, 2017 11:35 pm

I see the weapons in BoTW more as ammunition than as intimate equipment. It is honestly better that the weapons cannot be repaired, as it encourages you to just use it till it is done, rather than hoard a ton of broken weapons in your inventory and treck back to a town to arbitrarily reforge them all. I love how you can knock a weapon from an enemy mid combat, pick it up, use it against them, shatter it on their skull for a critical hit, and move on. This weapon system made fights far more enjoyable for me (Although I feel the combat itself was lack-luster, that is something that has plenty of room for improvement)
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by LegendX48 on Sun May 21, 2017 11:44 pm

Fights were more irritating without a reliable weapon. That and most mobs generally have low-level weapons that break almost instantly. Lugging around damaged weapons would be the player's choice and I'm certain most people playing BOTW already do this anyway (I know I do). IF they stick with this weapon degradation system then we need a way to repair weapons too. Weapons can still shatter like glass but giving us something to prevent at least one or two from breaking during an encounter would be a life saver.

That and having a super rare and hard to find weapon that, within the lore, cannot be broken would also be welcome... I just still can't get over that the master sword breaks like a piece of shit. So damn stupid!
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by Koenig on Sun May 21, 2017 11:56 pm

LegendX48 wrote:Fights were more irritating without a reliable weapon. That and most mobs generally have low-level weapons that break almost instantly. Lugging around damaged weapons would be the player's choice and I'm certain most people playing BOTW already do this anyway (I know I do). IF they stick with this weapon degradation system then we need a way to repair weapons too. Weapons can still shatter like glass but giving us something to prevent at least one or two from breaking during an encounter would be a life saver.

That and having a super rare and hard to find weapon that, within the lore, cannot be broken would also be welcome... I just still can't get over that the master sword breaks like a piece of shit. So damn stupid!
It is different kind of weapon system to be sure, with its own pros and cons. I don't know why, but for me the majority of enemies were lugging around soldier and royal gear by the end of the game, so rare weapons were never much of a problem for me. Even though I always wanted more weapon slots, I never actually ran out of weapons past the first few hours of the game.

Again, I feel that weapons should remain un-repairable, (At least if you have to go back to a down to repair them that is, using some form of xp/power/shards to repair the out in the wild could be work...) otherwise, whenever a weapon gets damaged, players will likely rather run away to repair it, which is NEVER fun.

With that said...It would be neat if you could keep some form of gems/augments that could be equipped to breakable weapons, with the gems themselves never breaking, that could also work (Especially if the augments/gems grant extensive power/effects to the weapons they are equipped to)

Another idea I had (Although I don't think it would fit with the "Pick up and fight" style BoTW went for) would be for the weapons themselves the level up to a point until they break, with the reforging process itself acting like a pretiege/class up, unlocking the new powers and abilities that each weapon has and keeping you invested in using them.
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by xXJus10Xx on Mon May 22, 2017 1:20 am

There should be permanent weapons, but lack in power compared to expendable weapons.
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by LegendX48 on Mon May 22, 2017 7:17 pm

Leveling up weapons that break sounds terrible to me. If you keep the weapon degradation system then the leveling system would be completely worthless.

As for players fleeing battle to go back to town to find a blacksmith, again, that's their choice. If they want to do it, let them. Meanwhile, others will throw their weapon at the enemy for a crit and move on to the next weapon in their bag.
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Re: My problems with Breath of The Wild

Post by Koenig on Tue May 23, 2017 2:31 pm

LegendX48 wrote:Leveling up weapons that break sounds terrible to me. If you keep the weapon degradation system then the leveling system would be completely worthless.
The weapons would effectivelly level up when they are broken and then reforged, rather than disposing of them outright.

LegendX48 wrote:
Meanwhile, others will throw their weapon at the enemy for a crit and move on to the next weapon in their bag.
that is exactly the point. The weapons of Breath of the Wild are not intended to be permanent in any form. I do agree that the master sword breaking is pretty dumb though. Like Justin said, I do I feel the game would benefit from having some permanent weapons, albeit at a far weakened state.
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