Official All-Gaming Discussion Thread - Formally Zelda and Nintendo Thread

[Koenig]

Or better yet, make a thread for an official LBW discussion so people who have not beaten it don't need to worry about spoilers

DO IT DO IT

And here we are!  If you have played the game and or want to talk about it, here is the place to do it.  Just be warned: spoilers abound!

[-Mazer]

*cracks knuckles* First and formost I love the fact that this is the first Zelda game in ages where Rupees are actually worth getting. I loved the whole Rent/Buy system of the game :3

[Koenig]

I absolutely loved the game, but before I start to praise it I want to get a few things out of the way that drive me nuts; all of which have to do with the story.

SPOILERS:

My first annoyance was the inconsistency of the story pacing. The game started with a number of well scripted cutscenes that gave urgency to the game, but they vanished as soon as the 3rd dungeon was completed. Had these cutscenes been used to flesh out the sages and area of the game rather than just a few sections-the game would have been far better off.
For example: I knew that all seven sages had been kidnapped, and was clearly shown 2-3 of them being stolen; but the others remained completely obscured. I had no idea what sage I was saving when I went into a dungeon, and when I saved them I often said to myself: "Wait a second, when did you get kidnapped?" As I was never given any indication that these particular NPC's had ever been captured. NO ONE SEEMED TO CARE! It is just an inconsistent pace to the game; it does not necessarily harm it, but it could have added so much more to the game.
Yuga started the game as a fantastic villain who had a ton of personality and a mysterious motive, however after the third dungeon he became a ugly ganon hybrid who had but two more lines in the entire game-of which we have already heard a thousand times before. It just pisses me off that the character was wasted in this manner. If he had been used a continuing villain he would have left a better impression. Better yet, it would have been interesting to see him fulfill his original mission and only be trying to save Lorule, not conquer it.

This leads to my third major annoyance: Hilda. Some of you may have been surprised by the "Twist" but I saw it coming from a mile away. It is a good set up, but once again seemingly wasted.
In and of herself, Hilda could have been one of the best "Villains" in Zelda history. Not because she was evil, but because her actions were the only way she could save her people. But by revealing this only at the end of the game, it greatly diminished the effect it could of had. I would have cared much more for her plight if I had known about from the start; an ethical dilema to say the least.

That leads to my biggest gripe off the entire game. IT COULD HAVE ALL BEEN AVOIDED! Hilda could have easily asked Zelda for help use the Hyrules triforce to restore its counterpart in lorule. Even summoning Ganon to get the triforce of power via the seven sages and military would have made far more sense summoning him and expecting him not betray you. IT IS JUST BULLSHIT!

[Koenig]

*cracks knuckles* First and formost I love the fact that this is the first Zelda game in ages where Rupees are actually worth getting. I loved the whole Rent/Buy system of the game :3

I loved the rupees in this game, and I liked the renting system; however I do feel that some of the items would have been better off within the dungeon. Since the dungeons are built around just one item and you can do them in any order, why not just put it inside the dungeon to begin with?

*Rant*

I still loved the game though.

I also LOVED how they changed the magic metter into a stamina meter. This made using the items a lot more functional.

[-Mazer]

I can only comment on one part due to being at work - the other characters ARE mentioned as being kidnapped if you walk to the people who were close to them. I think after the 2nd dungeon, if you explore the map you can actually find other NPCs talking about how those characters are vanished and how worried they are.

I know the water critter worry about their queen and I remember that that one boy's mother gets all worried and asks you to help find them. After you save the characters and return to their families before the final dungeon - you can actually get a new set of dialogue where Link "explains" the situation for the characters.

[Koenig]

I can only comment on one part due to being at work - the other characters ARE mentioned as being kidnapped if you walk to the people who were close to them. I think after the 2nd dungeon, if you explore the map you can actually find other NPCs talking about how those characters are vanished and how worried they are.

I know the water critter worry about their queen and I remember that that one boy's mother gets all worried and asks you to help find them. After you save the characters and return to their families before the final dungeon - you can actually get a new set of dialogue where Link "explains" the situation for the characters.

I know that, but it still felt out of place. When they other sages were kidnapped we were given a direct point about it. With the rest however it was just left to the player to figure out. The only one I actually knew was missing was the smiths kid, and my first thought was "Welp, I guess he is a sage." I had no idea the Zora Queen or Rock lifter were missing because neither of the locations held anymore purpose to the game and I never visited them again (Despite getting all 100 Miamais) The which was obvious, but since she was a modile character she could have easily been shown being captured. Ultimately my gripe is not about them being kidnapped, but rather how it was never emphasized like it was for other sages.

[-Mazer]

Now I am opposite. You see, I love the idea that we had to find out on our own. It gave me this feel that the entire world was moving on its own and not just centered around us. Like if I wasn't there at the right time I may have missed something because the world is living. It feels more organic that way and it also gives us more to look forward too during a 2nd play thru.

As for the whole "Requesting Zelda's Help" idea - it wasn't just that she needed the Triforce, but she also wanted her own hero as well since the other guy was a total coward. Plus this is a common character flaw everywhere. There are tons of stories out there where if a character just stopped everything and said "LOOK! THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON" it would be over and done with 10 minutes in ^_^

[Koenig]

Now I am opposite. You see, I love the idea that we had to find out on our own. It gave me this feel that the entire world was moving on its own and not just centered around us. Like if I wasn't there at the right time I may have missed something because the world is living. It feels more organic that way and it also gives us more to look forward too during a 2nd play thru...There are tons of stories out there where if a character just stopped everything and said "LOOK! THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON" it would be over and done with 10 minutes in ^_^

 I am fine with figuring things out on my own, but the fact is the sages disappearing changed almost nothing. Ultimately it felt contrived. Hell for all intents and purposes they essentially kill off the sages as characters when it happens.  One of the sages even mentions something along the lines of "I would like to go home, I just have no idea how to get out of here (Sacred realm)"  There only purpose is to be a macguffin.

As for the whole "Requesting Zelda's Help" idea - it wasn't just that she needed the Triforce, but she also wanted her own hero as well since the other guy was a total coward.

Which is why she tried to kill me?    I could have sworn the whole point was so that Link would uncover the Triforce of courage, not that she wanted a hero.

Once again, my main complaint with the story and premise in general is that it feels contrived.  There was only one twist that really made sense to me, and that was Ravio.

[LegendX48]

All of the cons you mentioned are things I never actually noticed or stopped to think about while playing. ALTTP didn't tell you a damn thing about who these sages were outside of like two or three of them (which ALBW also does), they just needed saving and you were the only one who could do it.

Hilda never tried to kill Link. WW is clear proof that these characters do not need to be killed in order for their piece of the triforce to be taken. Hilda needed Link to hand it over, end of story. That aside, the whole story in ALBW takes a backseat to EVERYTHING to the point where it doesn't matter. ALBW is not meant to be an story based game, period! Why do you think the story is so-so on all fronts outside of the finale? Because it didn't matter and was never truly a factor.

[-Mazer]

All of the cons you mentioned are things I never actually noticed or stopped to think about while playing. ALTTP didn't tell you a damn thing about who these sages were outside of like two or three of them (which ALBW also does), they just needed saving and you were the only one who could do it.

Hilda never tried to kill Link. WW is clear proof that these characters do not need to be killed in order for their piece of the triforce to be taken. Hilda needed Link to hand it over, end of story. That aside, the whole story in ALBW takes a backseat to EVERYTHING to the point where it doesn't matter. ALBW is not meant to be an story based game, period! Why do you think the story is so-so on all fronts outside of the finale? Because it didn't matter and was never truly a factor.

I tend to agree to some degree on this. The storyline to ALTP and ALBW are minimal at best. We are given just enough sotryline to understand all of what is going on in the world - why the baddies are here, why they want the triforce, and how to stop them. The rest of the game is strictly adventure and action with puzzles in the mix.

Which makes me wonder. How would you like a Legend of Zelda Action RPG game? LEveling up, a very detailed story, bigger world, more towns, side quests?

[LegendX48]

All of the cons you mentioned are things I never actually noticed or stopped to think about while playing. ALTTP didn't tell you a damn thing about who these sages were outside of like two or three of them (which ALBW also does), they just needed saving and you were the only one who could do it.

Hilda never tried to kill Link. WW is clear proof that these characters do not need to be killed in order for their piece of the triforce to be taken. Hilda needed Link to hand it over, end of story. That aside, the whole story in ALBW takes a backseat to EVERYTHING to the point where it doesn't matter. ALBW is not meant to be an story based game, period! Why do you think the story is so-so on all fronts outside of the finale? Because it didn't matter and was never truly a factor.

I tend to agree to some degree on this. The storyline to ALTP and ALBW are minimal at best. We are given just enough sotryline to understand all of what is going on in the world - why the baddies are here, why they want the triforce, and how to stop them. The rest of the game is strictly adventure and action with puzzles in the mix.

Which makes me wonder. How would you like a Legend of Zelda Action RPG game? LEveling up, a very detailed story, bigger world, more towns, side quests?

Zelda is not a RPG and it shouldn't try to be. Zelda is adventure. With that said, a detailed story, bigger world, more towns and side quests would definitely be welcome, hell, they should be mandatory.

[-Mazer]

Mario isn't an RPG either but it worked very well. I think a Zelda RPG would be interesting as long as it is not turned based. I mean think about it. Leveling up armor, swords (ntil master sword that is), more items, crafting, looting...what is there not to include?

[Koenig]

Mario isn't an RPG either but it worked very well. I think a Zelda RPG would be interesting as long as it is not turned based. I mean think about it. Leveling up armor, swords (ntil master sword that is), more items, crafting,  looting...what is there not to include?

Technically those features are already in the Zelda universe. At its heart Zelda is an adventure game that has been tempered with RPG elements. I do think that those elements could be improved on, but it still needs to retain a level of simplicity.

Any thoughts about my comment in regards to Yuga/Hilda?

[LegendX48]

He was pretty interesting but at the same time he was never the true villain, he was just a means to an end BUT he did have his own plans and they were revealed when he fused himself with Gannon. He wasn't wasted, he wanted the power to change the world as he saw fit and he got the power to do so.

Again though, there's not a whole lot else to say as ALBW isn't a story based game.

[-Mazer]

He was pretty interesting but at the same time he was never the true villain, he was just a means to an end BUT he did have his own plans and they were revealed when he fused himself with Gannon. He wasn't wasted, he wanted the power to change the world as he saw fit and he got the power to do so.

Again though, there's not a whole lot else to say as ALBW isn't a story based game.  

I personally love the fact that he was not Gannon at the end but a FUSION of himself and Gannon. It was nice seeing that it wasn't just Gannon all over again ^_^ Great twist

[Koenig]

*Disagrees*

But I digress; nit picking aside, the game is fantastic.

I love almost every thing about, and that music is so damn good.

*Plays Ten hour version of Lorule Castle*

[LegendX48]

to be honest, the Lorule theme is a bit of a let down. They replaced the drum beat with strings, bad idea. That and the Lorule Castle theme sounds like something straight out of Disney (more akin to Epic Mickey I suppose but that is Disney so w/e)

[Koenig]

That and the Lorule Castle theme sounds like something straight out of Disney (more akin to Epic Mickey I suppose but that is Disney so w/e)

I see I was not the only one who thought that. I honestly felt like i was storming Disney's Castle at the end, lol.

*Imagines Mickey Mouse as the next incarnation of Ganon*

[ColumbianLoom]

I LOVE ALBW!!!! I enjoyed every minute of it. Great pacing, good enough story, an alive and thriving world, currency that matters, items that are used over and over again (except for the sand rod lol), and awesome puzzles. It's one of the best Zelda games I've played in a while.

All of the cons you mentioned are things I never actually noticed or stopped to think about while playing. ALTTP didn't tell you a damn thing about who these sages were outside of like two or three of them (which ALBW also does), they just needed saving and you were the only one who could do it.

Hilda never tried to kill Link. WW is clear proof that these characters do not need to be killed in order for their piece of the triforce to be taken. Hilda needed Link to hand it over, end of story. That aside, the whole story in ALBW takes a backseat to EVERYTHING to the point where it doesn't matter. ALBW is not meant to be an story based game, period! Why do you think the story is so-so on all fronts outside of the finale? Because it didn't matter and was never truly a factor.

I would have to agree with Legend here Koenig. The story in ALBW wasn't really meant to be really deep and engaging. It was interesting enough to make you want to keep on going and that was really it. I don't think that's bad because ALBW excelled in pretty much everything else. I don't think the game really had to do much else for the story and I enjoyed talking to all the locals and finding things out for yourself.

However, I do hope that Zelda U has a deep and compelling story. And I'm really hoping for an insane, sadistic villain as well.

[ColumbianLoom]

to be honest, the Lorule theme is a bit of a let down. They replaced the drum beat with strings, bad idea. That and the Lorule Castle theme sounds like something straight out of Disney (more akin to Epic Mickey I suppose but that is Disney so w/e)

Lol. I didn't get that feeling at all! I loved the Lorule theme and the Lorule Castle theme. I thought both were epic. Those trumpets just rocked my world....

[LegendX48]

to be honest, the Lorule theme is a bit of a let down. They replaced the drum beat with strings, bad idea. That and the Lorule Castle theme sounds like something straight out of Disney (more akin to Epic Mickey I suppose but that is Disney so w/e)

Lol. I didn't get that feeling at all! I loved the Lorule theme and the Lorule Castle theme. I thought both were epic. Those trumpets just rocked my world....

No, I liked it alot, I just wish they had kept the drums

[LegendX48]

As far as a great, sadistic villain for Zelda on Wii U... it won't happen, ever. Nintendo's hell bent on baby-ifying the series to the point where even Disney would be disgusted by it.

[Koenig]

As far as a great, sadistic villain for Zelda on Wii U... it won't happen, ever. Nintendo's hell bent on baby-ifying the series to the point where even Disney would be disgusted by it.

Majora was pretty vile, as was Zant. They were just never fleshed out further.

[ColumbianLoom]

As far as a great, sadistic villain for Zelda on Wii U... it won't happen, ever. Nintendo's hell bent on baby-ifying the series to the point where even Disney would be disgusted by it.

Majora was pretty vile,  as was Zant.  They were just never fleshed out further.

Ya for sure. Zant had a lot of potential but they kind of through him aside after you got the Fused Shadows.

But I believe there's still hope for a crazy villain for Zelda U and other upcoming Zelda games. Aonuma is at the stop of the thrown now and he certainly seems willing to change things up (I mean he already did for ALBW).

I just want a villain that is present the entire game and is not the typical: see the villain a little in the beginning and then you have to wait all the way till the end to see the villain again. I want to see the villain develop through the game because usually when Ganondorf is the bad guy it's just like, "He's super bad and he wants to take over the world, so you need to stop him because you're the hero of legend blah blah." And that's that. How about we get a villain that is unpredictable and his/her motives are unclear and we see the villain a lot throughout the game.

I know I'm asking for a lot but I believe that Aonuma and his team can do it. I think they know how important Zelda U is going to be for the franchise, so I think they won't want to play it safe when it comes to the villain. *knocks on wood*

[LegendX48]

I really doubt we'll ever get villains like those again. Skyward was proof that Nintendo is hell-bent on making Zelda for children, even ALBW is disgustingly cutesy.

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