Gen Chat XLI: Horror Blind Bags!

Darth Luna wrote:So is the WII U's 3rd part support a cause of people not buying 3rd party games or vice versa? When exactly was it that 3rd party started doing so badly, or at least the perception. This seems like a cycle that feeds on itself. Pretty much, why exactly is it like this now? I've never understood that.

The problem with 3rd parties is that a majority of 3rd party ports for Nintendo are gimped.

Batman AC had horrid framerate problems that were inexcusable. Batman Origins had the DLC removed. Injustice had it's DLC and costumes removed. Sniper V2 had online and leaderboards removed, and so on.

Then you have Raman being delayed just before it's release. Dues Ex's special edition was supposed to be Wii U exclusive but they put it on every console and dropped the price tag 10$ EXCEPT on the WiiU version making it the most expensive of the bunch.

Then you have Capcom who claims that there isn't a fanbase for games like Street Fighter on the WiiU (despite porting SF4 to every damn console in existence including cell phones but refusing to put it on WiiU and Wii) and ignore the WiiU's existence for games like RE6 (unless it is an experimental spin off game like Revelations which is nothing but a 3DS port).

Then Crytek full admits they were willing to put Crysis 3 on the WiiU and had everything prepped for it but EA - still angry about the Origin thing - denies the game's existence on the WiiU...

The ONLY port that was done well was the Need For Speed port which is considered the superior 3rd party port. However even that game suffered sales because it was released almost a year and a half after the original release.

Watch Dogs was supposed to launch with the others but it was delayed by months.

So the fanbase on WiiU refuse to buy this crap. They refuse to buy broken, gimped 3rd party games and the publishers go "SEE! SEE! NINTENDO DOESN'T SELL 3RD PARTY TITLES!!!!"


And yet despite all this, almost every single indie developer has said nothing but amazing things about working with nintendo and how they have completely 180'd on their stances with helping devs. They say that Nintendo has been one of the most supportive companies to work with for their games.

Whereas these "AAA" studios claim the WIiU is hard to Dev for, all these indie guys say that the WiiU is a breeze to work with considering all of the different coding and shader formats it is compatible with.

Which means these 5 guys in a basement can make amazing WiiU games but multi-million dollar studios struggle with it for reasons.

I see, so it's that again. I'm so confused as to why that happens, though.

I am guessing because they just don't honestly care to put full effort into a Nintendo game or Publishers believe that the full product just won't sell. So they gimp it to save time and money and then act surprised when people refuse to buy broken, gimped versions.


To put it in perspective take Lego Cities Undercover; one of the very few WiiU 3rd part exlusives that was fantastic.

It sold .78 million which is higher than 1 system sales on other lego games (Harry Potter 5-8 sold .75 million on PS3, for example).

It was a success for being a single console game and it outsold other lego games on a single console

(yes. More consoles = more sales but you get the idea).

So. In short = Games DO sell if effort is made.

But what started that perception for the Publishers? I just don't get that. Everyone here makes it sound like they hate Nintendo, but is that really the case?

Theorically from what I understand, Nintendo and 3rd parties had some sort of falling out during the N64 era due to (what I think) Nintendo focusing more on their games than helping 3rd parties out with theirs...that is one reason the downfall came during the GC era.

Then with the Wii, apparently publishers didn't see the Wii as a viable product for their big titles but instead as a cash cow for their shovelware which was partially right and when quality games did hit the Wii, they didn't sell very well which, again, caused a rift.

It was also probably because a lot of devs and publishers believe that when a company makes a new console, they should talk to the devs/publishers first and foremost to see what kind of specs they prefer working with -something Nintendo doesn't do or rarely does.

But for the WiiU, nintendo is trying to fix all those issues and rebuild their relationships but the 3rd parties are saying Dick Off. Screw you.

Ah, that gives me a better understanding of the situation. I know the Wii was rough on 3rd parties, but I didn't know how far back the rift went.

Devs/Publishers didn;t like the continued use of carts for the N64 (despite that during that era, CDs were still iffy for gaming) and they really didn't like the mini discs for the Gamecube (despite the GC's power)

Then you get the Wii which was not as strong as the other systems and was sold to "casuals" which led to them preferring to sell shovelware. So of course "hardcore" gamers started to ignore 3rd parties because of all the crap they produced and when a "good" game was made, it was ignored in the sea of crap people vomited out.

Which of course, had publishers blaming the console, not themselves.

Sounds like there is plenty of blame to go around to everyone, to me.

I doubt Advanced Warfare will come to the Wii U because the previous two games sold poorly, however they had absolutely no support from the publisher after it was released where as all other versions got massive updates, patches, and DLC.

I honestly feel that most "businessmen" in the video game industry should be fired and replaced by people who have actually had some experience making video-games.

What I don't understand is, if there is a void there, why hasn't someone else filled it up? That's what I'm getting from you guys. The WiiU seems to be open for the taking, why isn't there someone willing to go in and make a name for themselves on it. I just don't get it. >_<

Darth Luna wrote:Sounds like there is plenty of blame to go around to everyone, to me.

There is. At least Nintendo is trying to fix the issue but the publishers are sorta black listing them.

Koenig wrote:I doubt Advanced Warfare will come to the Wii U because the previous two games sold poorly, however they had absolutely no support from the publisher after it was released where as all other versions got massive updates, patches, and DLC.

I honestly feel that most "businessmen" in the video game industry should be fired and replaced by people who have actually had some experience making video-games.

Exactly. Another gimped version. If Nintendo fans are anything; they are people who don't tolerate crap ports - as they should not. Of course, it's Nintendo's fault in the eyes of the Publishers.

Darth Luna wrote:What I don't understand is, if there is a void there, why hasn't someone else filled it up? That's what I'm getting from you guys. The WiiU seems to be open for the taking, why isn't there someone willing to go in and make a name for themselves on it. I just don't get it. >_<

That's where the Indie devs are stepping up. A lot of them are overwhelmed with the support Nintendo is giving them. If you prove you are serious and legit, Nintendo will discount their dev kit by over 50% and they will also give your crew Unity Pro for free (which is a HUGE deal considering the cost of Unity).

WiiU also supports Flash, C++, Unity, and several other types of programming and engines that are Indie-friendly.

The guy who did Mutant Muds said his next game will be a WiiU exclusive and that his game sold the most on the WiiU out of all the other consoles. Shovel Knight is the 2nd only to STEAM sales with WiiU owning 28% of sales. The Market and PSN have very few sales in comparison.

Nintendo also allows Free patches and updates (whereas Msoft used to charge for those), they let devs set Sales and discounts, as well as set their own prices. They are actually borrowing a lot from STEAM's method of development.

A lot of Indie games are selling better on the WiiU than the other console and games like Little Inferno and Trine 2 are perfect for the touchpad.

Darth Luna wrote:What I don't understand is, if there is a void there, why hasn't someone else filled it up? That's what I'm getting from you guys. The WiiU seems to be open for the taking, why isn't there someone willing to go in and make a name for themselves on it. I just don't get it. >_<

It is a void for AAA games.  Not many developers have the resources to make them and the majority that do exist take orders from said 3rd party publishers.  It is not a problem of power or porting either, as the wii U is more powerful that the PS3/360, but instead it is a problem of developers not putting it on the system for the sake of not putting it on the system.

While not exactly what I am talking about, Jinquisition has a few videos that cover the mentality publishers have in regards to it. Though in regards to the Wii U, this is a case of Publishers avoiding the Wii U because of a problem that they themselves created.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/9045-The-Unholy-Trinity-Of-Blind-Greedy-Bastards
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/9010-An-Industry-Of-Pitiful-Cowards

Legend you want in on my live podcast?

My dad with computers:

TensePsychopath wrote:

ffs Tense

Also Koenig, you should rehost that image, 4chan images die quickly.

wow I just realized my birthday is next week, I feel old lol

You shoulda been born 2 weeks earlier, you missed out on best month.

Still works on mine though... A friend sent to me, I don't care to browse 4-chan...

Squirrel500 wrote:wow I just realized my birthday is next week, I feel old lol

;

-Mazer wrote:

Squirrel500 wrote:wow I just realized my birthday is next week, I feel old lol

;

I feel ya mazar.

*sees that the 2nd volume of the new Black Widow series won't be out until January*

This makes me sad

I quite liked the first volume.

now you know how I feel about the last book for Ever After High

-Mazer wrote:now you know how I feel about the last book for Ever After High


[img]http://halespawn.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451577769e2019affaf73f0970b-pi[img]

...wut?

Darth Luna wrote:You shoulda been born 2 weeks earlier, you missed out on best month.

But April was more than two weeks ago

LegendX48 wrote:

-Mazer wrote:now you know how I feel about the last book for Ever After High


[img]http://halespawn.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451577769e2019affaf73f0970b-pi[img]

...wut?

It's a great book series. Don't you dare knock it.