Re: Official All-Gaming Discussion Thread - Formally Zelda and Nintendo Thread

[LegendX48]

The power of the WiiU could provide huge games that devs could only imagine on the DS though....

which is why they are going PS4/XBone, the wii u is a ps3 with a screen on its controller, the ps4 and xbone are new systems that genuinely offer them far more power to play with along with far better tools. Devs are sick of the shackles that the ps3 and 360 thrust upon them.

And again if you want to talk about power - you would think that devs would 100% support the Vita over the DS. They don't. They develop for the weakest of the hand-helds - the 3DS


Devs cannot have it both ways. Either don't support weak consoles or do.

This is where things stop making sense. Nintendo's portables used to be the only portables and devs just put games on them by default. It's possible that when sony starting making their own portables most devs figured, "Meh, I'm good here," that and the DS and 3DS have much larger install bases. As for 3DS V Vita.... idk, there's not a whole lot on either

[Koenig]

I honestly think developers are getting a little bit greedy when it comes to what they expect out of the systems. Its fine to prefer having more power to work with, but when they start discounting the weaker system out of hand then something had gone wrong.

[LegendX48]

I honestly think developers are getting a little bit greedy when it comes to what they expect out of the systems.  Its fine to prefer having more power to work with, but when they start discounting the weaker system out of hand then something had gone wrong.

Because they want to move forward. To make a Wii U game would be the same as just making yet another ps3/360 game.

There's also a ton of anomalies such as the games that are still to come for the PS3 but those have been in development for some time now.

[-Mazer]

I honestly think developers are getting a little bit greedy when it comes to what they expect out of the systems.  Its fine to prefer having more power to work with, but when they start discounting the weaker system out of hand then something had gone wrong.

Because they want to move forward. To make a Wii U game would be the same as just making yet another ps3/360 game.

There's also a ton of anomalies such as the games that are still to come for the PS3 but those have been in development for some time now.

How would it be the same? With the 2nd screen they can do things with the WiiU they couldn't ever do on the PS3.


Also

http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?p=97597160

Great list of indie games coming out if you scroll through the forums :)

[LegendX48]

I honestly think developers are getting a little bit greedy when it comes to what they expect out of the systems.  Its fine to prefer having more power to work with, but when they start discounting the weaker system out of hand then something had gone wrong.

Because they want to move forward. To make a Wii U game would be the same as just making yet another ps3/360 game.

There's also a ton of anomalies such as the games that are still to come for the PS3 but those have been in development for some time now.

How would it be the same? With the 2nd screen they can do things with the WiiU they couldn't ever do on the PS3.


Also

http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?p=97597160

Great list of indie games coming out if you scroll through the forums :)

I deleted what I had originally intended to post because, the more I think about it, the more and more it rings in my head how absolutely worthless the Wii U gamepad actually is :\

The concept of dual screens does not work with a console because you are not actively watching both screens at once like you are on the DS. While I do think it'd be good for RPGs and Zelda like adventure games (ONLY) it is absolutely worthless for everything else. Even with those two examples, the absolute best use of the gamepad would be relegated strictly to inventory, quest logs and a map display which is why it would be fairly good for them but at the same time not truly needed.

I've said it before, there is absolutely nothing unique about this console other than the fact that it is very underpowered. The fact that the DS exists is this system's own undoing in my eyes.

[-Mazer]

I think you are limiting the system's abilities of having a 2nd screen. I can come up with tons of little ideas that could be beneficial ^_^

[LegendX48]

Like?

[ColumbianLoom]

Nice! This thread was much needed!

Anyways, so basically if the Wii U doesn't well sell after this year, then the Wii U is finished. If a console can't sell well with a Mario Kart and a Smash Bros in the same year, then there's a huge problem.

I really wonder what Nintendo would do if Wii U continues to sell terrible this year. Would they just wait it out the next 3 years or would they just drop the Wii U as soon as possible?

[LegendX48]

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't :\

[Cybersix]

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't :\

Nintendo in a nutshell

[-Mazer]

Like?

For co-op games online:

The bottom screen can be used to follow your partner and the microphone can be used to communicate. So you two can see where the other person is looking at at all times and then coordinate attacks better

Strat games like Command and Conquer, Rise of Nations, StarCraft


For a reboot of Monster Rancher:
Can use the camera as a barcode scanner to scan CDs or DVD barcodes to generate monsters like the older games did using CDs.


Sim city style games - you can watch the HD close ups on the TV and use the gamepad to build the city, go underground for pipes and subways, manage the budget all without having to wait for the screens to change on the TV set.

Sport games: Draw out your own plays on the pad. Use the pad for replays, zooming in, try to challenge referee calls

War games:

Bottom screen to look over the entire battle field. Draw out notes where enemies are bunked out; draw out plans for your squads to follow while you move through the game the other squad can follow your drawn out commands. This could also be used for MP games where you can make notes for team-mates who can see your notes on their screens.

Saints Row/GTA: Bottom screen can be the main hub with one corner of the screen dedicated to those who contact you so that you can have their faces appear in the corner of the bottom screen and talk to you while also letting you have a section to summon cars and weapons or switch to a map so no more pausing the game.

Fighting games: Moveset on the bottom - no more annoying "lemme pause the game to do a fatality!"

You can use the bottom screen to customize characters at a more accurate level. Imagine a game like Dark Spore that focuses a lot on attaching body parts to a character - so much easier using a touch screen

Aliens: Motion detector, move the screen left and right to scan the region in front of you. Seriously this alone would make the WiiU version better

The touch screen would vastly improve console PC games like The Sims, Dragon Age, and any other game that focuses a lot on Hot-Keys. Imagine WOW on the WiiU using the bottom screen as your primary hot-key zone. All your hot-keys right there for easy management.

[LegendX48]

an mmo with all hotkeys on the touchscrren sounds good on paper but it woulf be absolutely in a game. Those few seconds it takes to look away from the tv and look for the right ability on the screen is a gamebreaker in motion. Sure, you could have just big buttons displayed on the gamepad but unless they could fit well over 20 w/o error, it's just not worth it. Even so, though, console mmos just use shoulder button + any face buttons seems to be decent enough for people so meh...

fighting games, sure, that sounds okay for practice mode, but that's it. At that point, why bother? And your example is terrible unless it takes you a fraction of a second to get to the right menu, right move list and move category.

Aliens, most have already argued that using the gamepad as the motion tracker in Isolation would break the game. It sounds good on paper, but that's about it.

Customizing a character on a screen closer to your face is a good idea but the low res screen hinders it.

online co-op games... that's what maps are for.

Saints/GTA. That's unnecessary in and of itself.

No comment on the others cause I don't play them and have no experience with how they are as is

[-Mazer]

Really, the whole "looking away from TV" issue for the hotkeys is a nonarguement, Legend. Seriously once you get used to its location, you'll be fine and it takes so little time to glance down, tap, and glance up that is seriously takes less than a second. ZombiU has proven that plenty of times and on Wind Waker, I am able to swap items rapidly without losing focus at all on the TV screen

2nd: You misunderstood my Customizing character idea. Go look at Dark Spore footage to get an idea what I mean by using the touch screen to adjust and customize better. and the screen is not so "low def" that you won't be able to see detail. The screen's resolution is just fine.

3rd: Just because you think "Unnecessary" doesn't make it useless. Seriously, the lack of needing to pause in WindWaker HD has greatly increased my enjoyment of that game. I mean games like Far Cry 3, Tomb Raider, Saints Row - anything with a huge custom item, leveling tree, or inventory management would benefit 100% from the 2nd screen

4th: Co-op No. You aren't getting it. Seeing where your friend is on a map is USELESS compared to the idea of actually SEEING his screen. You can then tell him if he is looking in the wrong direction, or see things from his viewpoint to better coordinate attacks and use his viewpoint to scout out areas around him while he can see around you. A map cannot let you see things that he sees. This is what I mean. You are limiting things way to much.

Just because you cannot see it, Legend, doesn't mean the WiiU cannot benefit from all of these ideas and games.

[LegendX48]

#1
It isn't a moot point. It works fine in Wind Waker because that's not a balls to the wall ultra fast game with dozens of people who need you to respond in a very specific way in a millisecond. It works on paper and would work in slower paced game but crank up the speed and it could be a detrimental issue.

# 2
I didn't misunderstand, I agree with the idea. The fact that the res isn't as high as the TV you're playing on somewhat hinders it and that was the only real negative I could think of.

#3
I liked it in WW but for certain things some people need to pause. Think RE4's inventory and then go to RE5, real time inventories (or w/e the proper term actually is) are not ideal for everything.

#4
You got me there.

Aside from the co-op idea, most of it is stuff that doesn't need "fixing" or typical DS stuff that's been done before and I think devs would rather make a DS game anyway, more users and probably lower cost.

[ColumbianLoom]

Really, the whole "looking away from TV" issue for the hotkeys is a nonarguement, Legend. Seriously once you get used to its location, you'll be fine and it takes so little time to glance down, tap, and glance up that is seriously takes less than a second. ZombiU has proven that plenty of times and on Wind Waker, I am able to swap items rapidly without losing focus at all on the TV screen

2nd: You misunderstood my Customizing character idea. Go look at Dark Spore footage to get an idea what I mean by using the touch screen to adjust and customize better. and the screen is not so "low def" that you won't be able to see detail. The screen's resolution is just fine.

3rd: Just because you think "Unnecessary" doesn't make it useless. Seriously, the lack of needing to pause in WindWaker HD has greatly increased my enjoyment of that game. I mean games like Far Cry 3, Tomb Raider, Saints Row - anything with a huge custom item, leveling tree, or inventory management would benefit 100% from the 2nd screen

4th: Co-op  No. You aren't getting it. Seeing where your friend is on a map is USELESS compared to the idea of actually SEEING his screen. You can then tell him if he is looking in the wrong direction, or see things from his viewpoint to better coordinate attacks and use his viewpoint to scout out areas around him while he can see around you. A map cannot let you see things that he sees. This is what I mean. You are limiting things way to much.

Just because you cannot see it, Legend, doesn't mean the WiiU cannot benefit from all of these ideas and games.

I agree with Mazer here, Legend. There's some very cool things you can do with the gamepad.

If only some of these developers actually tried to make some of these ideas come to life! Mazer, we need you to be the creative director (I think that's the right job for that type of stuff haha) at some of these third party studios.

[LegendX48]

Yes, and there are also some great things that could be done with the PS4's power :p

*has idea for wii u game anyway*

[ColumbianLoom]

Yes, and there are also some great things that could be done with the PS4's power :p

*has idea for wii u game anyway*

There's cool things you can do with both!

[smirkytrick]

Finally found this thread.
Anyways, I like to bring the third party back into the discussion. I have seen so many third parties favoring the PS4 & Xbone because of 'headroom' and yet their games don't look any different from when they were on the ps3 or 360.

I agree with Keonig, that they are getting greedy. Not only greedy, but lazy as well. Sure, they work very hard to make their game LOOK good. but not much else. I am still seeing games on the PS4 and Xbone that are still using QTE's for crying out loud. They don't want to do anything different because they think they have to work even harder to make their games fun.

[-Mazer]

Finally found this thread.
Anyways, I like to bring the third party back into the discussion. I have seen so many third parties favoring the PS4 & Xbone because of 'headroom' and yet their games don't look any different from when they were on the ps3 or 360.

I agree with Keonig, that they are getting greedy. Not only greedy, but lazy as well. Sure, they work very hard to make their game LOOK good. but not much else. I am still seeing games on the PS4 and Xbone that are still using QTE's for crying out loud. They don't want to do anything different because they think they have to work even harder to make their games fun.

For me this becomes a cost issue. They are going to make their games prettier which is going to cost more and more which means we are going to see LESS and LESS variety. You think people bitch about Nintendo "Rehashing?" wait until we see that Uncharted 4 is just Uncharted 3 but prettier or that Assassin's Creed 10 is just slightly improved...again.

With higher costs, we will see less risks in new ideas and those games that are new will be ignored.

Hell, look at how many people are shytting on Mordor because "It is similiar too" Batman and ACreed. I'm sorry but the game seems pretty bad-ass if it delivers its promises but people are just going to piss on it because it is not an established IP and "looks like" other games.

[smirkytrick]

Finally found this thread.
Anyways, I like to bring the third party back into the discussion. I have seen so many third parties favoring the PS4 & Xbone because of 'headroom' and yet their games don't look any different from when they were on the ps3 or 360.

I agree with Keonig, that they are getting greedy. Not only greedy, but lazy as well. Sure, they work very hard to make their game LOOK good. but not much else. I am still seeing games on the PS4 and Xbone that are still using QTE's for crying out loud. They don't want to do anything different because they think they have to work even harder to make their games fun.

For me this becomes a cost issue. They are going to make their games prettier which is going to cost more and more which means we are going to see LESS and LESS variety. You think people bitch about Nintendo "Rehashing?" wait until we see that Uncharted 4 is just Uncharted 3 but prettier or that Assassin's Creed 10 is just slightly improved...again.

With higher costs, we will see less risks in new ideas and those games that are new will be ignored.

Hell, look at how many people are shytting on Mordor because "It is similiar too" Batman and ACreed. I'm sorry but the game seems pretty bad-ass if it delivers its promises but people are just going to piss on it because it is not an established IP and "looks like" other games.

It's a damn shame, they spend all that money making their games have realistic graphics. They shouldn't be doing that. It like when an artist can't afford oil paint to make his work, but if he is skilled enough, he could make due with acrylic, colored pencils, or hell even crayons if he's knows what he's doing.

Those people that complain are complete hypocrites. They would never try any new games, but when something is copying another game they complain about how they never get anything new.

This is why I want to be in this industry though, to bring in something new to the table, I have ideas, I want to see them take off. But at the same time I worry that there are too many idiots that will just ruin this dream for me. I'm afraid that my ideas will be overshadowed by some COD clone, or some other bland game that became popular because of some publicity, bribery, or some controversy. Nowadays, there is rarely an honest game. I think that's what makes companies like VALVE, Double Fine, and even Nintendo, more memorable, they know what it takes to make an impact in this industry.

[LegendX48]

At the point where costs are going up and work is getting a bit tougher, that effort is better put into a console like the PS4 where they can achieve more. Devs want to move on from PS3/360, which is fantastic for the rest of the world but not the wii u which is basically a ps3.

EDIT: more crap I didn't really wanna post but want to get off my chest anyway

The obvious gaps in power aside, the problem with the Wii U has to stem from other things. Shit tier marketing, no real hook, the fact that devs look for scapegoats instead of real reasons (Yes, let's all ignore the fact that both the Wii and Wii U had various traditional controller options), and the horrid name.

[smirkytrick]

At the point where costs are going up and work is getting a bit tougher, that effort is better put into a console like the PS4 where they can achieve more. Devs want to move on from PS3/360, which is fantastic for the rest of the world but not the wii u which is basically a ps3.

I can understand wanting to move on, but what exactly is the difference with the games on the PS3 and the games on the PS4? You could say it can run more data, sure, but would it be noticeable to the consumer? And not to mention the PS3 STILL has tons of third party games being made, and you're telling me that just because the PS4 is newer that makes it obsolete? GTA 5 is on the PS3, could it be on the WiiU if the developers were given the chance?

[LegendX48]

At the point where costs are going up and work is getting a bit tougher, that effort is better put into a console like the PS4 where they can achieve more. Devs want to move on from PS3/360, which is fantastic for the rest of the world but not the wii u which is basically a ps3.

I can understand wanting to move on, but what exactly is the difference with the games on the PS3 and the games on the PS4? You could say it can run more data, sure, but would it be noticeable to the consumer? And not to mention the PS3 had tons of third party games, and you're telling me that just because the PS4 is newer that makes it obsolete? GTA 5 is on the PS3, could it be on the WiiU if the developers were given the chance?

It's not just more data. The power difference is huge. What I've seen from Killzone Shadow Fall and the videos for inFAMOUS Second Son stomp the ps3 into the ground, hard. I mean, really, you have a console with a launch game that rivals, if not crushes, Crysis 3 on ultra, and there's nowhere to go but up, this is a strong machine here. A similar, though lesser, argument could be made for the Wii U running end of generation games at launch (Ass creed, CoD 10, etc) but that's not impressive at all compared to its competition.

It's the start of a new generation and as such it's time for the previous gen stuff to be phased out (I personally want the previous gen to die in a fire asafp but that's just me).

As far as more data goes, PS4 games seem to be much larger on average, smallest game I can think of right now (excluding indies) is Knack which is about 34gb or so iirc.

Could the Wii U run something like GTA 5 on par with the PS3? Absolutely. Would Rockstar want to put it on the console? That's up to them and it seems like they have zero interest and that seems to be the larger problem in general. Devs just don't give a shit about the Wii U and I don't really blame them.

[ColumbianLoom]

I make good arguments!

I agree with pretty much everything you said Smirky.

I will say however, the PS4 is a great piece of hardware and I think it can do a lot of cool things. We just haven't seen it all because it's we are in the launch window. Give it a year or two and I think it will be putting out some great games. It's hard to judge from the launch window games because it hasn't really gotten its feet wet. Just give it time.

Anyways, developers have already given on the Wii U without even trying. Though, it goes both ways (first and third party) on why Wii U is such a mess right now. But, I'll focus on third parties right now:

I just don't see why a game like GTA V, which totally could have run on the Wii U, didn't get a port. It's not like Rockstar would lose THAT much money on it. Considering on how well its been selling on PS3 and 360, they would have been fine. Third parties, just have a grudge against the Wii U. In some cases I could understand why it might be neglected, but the big companies like Activision, Rockstar, EA, etc. should all be supporting it because it's not a hassle at all to port their games to it. They got the money, they can do it.

And the people rating on Mordor are stupid. I don't think people realize how hard it is to not be similar to another product these days because there's so much stuff out there. Sure, Mordor might have similar gameplay to Batman or AC, but that doesn't mean it's a total ripoff. The game is in a totally different setting and your doing totally different things. The game looks like a lot of fun and I'll probably end up buying it. The haters can have fun playing the same AC and COD every year. Fuck 'em.

Btw if your thinking about going into the industry Smirky, make sure to stay away from the big guys; at least at first. Your ideas might have a better chance in smaller studios where they can really come to life. And you won't have to worry as much working for the smaller guys because mainstream developers will probably take a crowbar and beat your ideas down to a pulp.

[LegendX48]

That's where things get a bit skewed. The Wii U is getting relatively decent 3rd party support. The only company who truly isn't supporting it is EA.

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