Re: Smirky's and Keonig's Game design thread (TOP SECRET)

[smirkytrick]

I am 100% behind starting out small, but I am suggesting the points as a way to keep track of the characters progress in the game. Think of the points like they were stars from Mario 64 but blocking off quests rather than parts of the world-subsequently enticing players to expand their infulence and improve themselves. However the points themselves don't represent a power source or odd number, but rather they are a visual presentation of the influence or reputation that the character has earned among those around him. The points give the aspect of rewarding the player for doing things and also preventing the player from screwing themselves over by biting off more than they can chew.

Okay, Now I'm starting to understand the points concept. I read right, it's sorta like a good or evil meter that determines what quests will be available. Right?

The size of the ships can be scaled down accordingly, but I think it would be nice if the player could acquire larger ships later on in the game. As for airships, I am all for a lighter than air design; but I really don't want to see them devolve into nothing but blimps or boats with balloons. Though I certainly want to retain some of those aspects, and the ships can be low-tech (wooden build) but we have a level freedom in a creative world such as this, so we can make them look many different ways.

Hmmm... There definitely should be bigger ships you're right about that.
But about the the airships. The reason why i prefer the blimps/propeller design is because it seems to be more practical. But I do understand what you mean. This is a creative world, we shouldn't limit the airships to just blimps you're right about that too. It was just that picture of an airship you showed me didn't look like an air ship, it looked space like a space ship. It was just that Whenever I think of an airship, I tend to think of the flying city in Bioshock Infinite or something from Sky of Arcadia. But nonetheless I can definitely see your point. Maybe we need to investigate airships some more.

As for the subs. I keep on rethinkng about them. Do we want them ship size? Small boat sized? barrel sized? And would they have an unfair advantage over the other ships?

[Koenig]

I think we definitely should have them. I also think it should factor in how the ship handles. For example during a storm, windy, etc. But I'm not sure if we should add snow the the factor. What do you think?

That is what I had in mind. If weather and currents affect the ships, it would allow us to build several gameplay mechanics. Wind speed and direction could affect the controls of your ships, currents could the push ships in specific directions, and weather conditions could affect your ships in different ways. (IE if we included snow, it could cover and potentially freeze parts of your ship; reducing its "Stats" or the in-game equivalent)

Likewise, I think it would be a very good idea to capitalize on these affects based on the type of ship the player is using. As an example, Airships would be heavily affected by the wind, seaships primarily use them as a boost, and submarines would be immune to them. On the flip-side, water currents would heavily direct a submarine, and pull a seaship along for the ride, but an airship would be immune to such sea-bound events (Jet streams on the hand are a completely different story)

Okay, Now I understand... Sorry if I misunderstood, it's just that there's a lot going on right now, I have to study for the test, I have some homework that I need to do. And I also have to admit, I'm not so good with words myself, I guess I did kinda left out the story I had in mind, and poorly described what I had in mind.

I understand what you're doing now, you were trying to make sure the story and gameplay are equally proportioned. I have failed to see that... I apologize.

No problem. Communication is half the battle; which is why we are here to begin with. (Why the F*** don't we have telepathic powers? It would make this so much easier...)

If it's alright with you, do you wanna hear my idea for the story? I think it actually might benefit us both in the creativity department.

Sure thing. The more information we share about what we have in mind, the clearer a picture we can paint in regards to what we are actually trying to make.

Okay, Now I'm starting to understand the points concept. I read right, it's sorta like a good or evil meter that determines what quests will be available. Right?

Somewhat. It was not my intention to introduce a morality system, but it could be used as such. Essentially I wanted to introduce a way to keep track of your progress while giving the game a way to keep you from getting in over your head, ensuring that you should at least have the tools you need before biting off a challenging quest.

With out this you might end up with the dark souls/original Zelda affect; where without a structure to follow, the player inevitably ends up in a situation where they are screwed sideways to Sunday- Not because they are a bad player, but because they wondered without aim into a place they have no chance of surviving with their current set of tools.

Hmmm... There definitely should be bigger ships you're right about that.
But about the the airships. The reason why i prefer the blimps/propeller design is because it seems to be more practical. But I do understand what you mean. This is a creative world, we shouldn't limit the airships to just blimps you're right about that too. It was just that picture of an airship you showed me didn't look like an air ship, it looked space like a space ship. It was just that Whenever I think of an airship, I tend to think of the flying city in Bioshock Infinite or something from Sky of Arcadia. But nonetheless I can definitely see your point. Maybe we need to investigate airships some more.

I can see how the first ship I suggested looked like a space craft, and I agree that would not be an ideal model to build off of (It was the only ship I could find on short notice that did not look like a blimp) Practicality is important, so we will need to keep our ships looking like something that could be built with word or iron. With this in mind, along with the fact we have agreed on an equilibrium between magic and science; I suggest that we based general technology on "Mechanized Magic". By this I mean that because magic and science have no clear advantage over each other; the combination of the two has become an aspect of technology itself, in which machines and magic are used in conjunction with each other. Such a mechanical engine would not work without magic in the same way that an engine in the realworld would not work without fuel. With this idea, we could keep most of the Steampunk/victorian vibe in tact whilst adding creative elements the mechanisms themselves.

As for the subs. I keep on rethinkng about them. Do we want them ship size? Small boat sized? barrel sized? And would they have an unfair advantage over the other ships?

I think that initially all ships the player controls should be small, and as the game progress's larger ships of equivalent size become available for all three types. So much like you suggested before, the first sub would be something along the lines of a barrel-sub; and later they would become behemoths like the Nautilus (Though in the pictures I posted before, the Nautilus is actually only half the size of the "Sea-ship")

[Koenig]

Some more images I think might be good. Please tell me what you think of them.

Airships:





Submarines:




Misc:

[smirkytrick]

Okay, Here's my idea of the story. Ya know how in games like in Fallout or Skyrim, there's all these side missions and yet you keep on being pressured to do the main quest that pertains to the main story?

Well, imagine not having the pressure of the main quest, but still get a butt load of awesome stories. It'll be like those books that isn't just one story, but a whole collection of stories.

And here's my introduction story that'll lead into those stories:

You start as a beggar, named Sam, on the streets of a xenophobic island that has cut all ties to any other country in the world. Then a passerby stops in front of you, instead of giving you money, he gives you a fishing pole, and teaches you how to fish. This man happens to be the captain of a crew that is negotiating a treaty with the king/queen that'll allow them to leave the island and perhaps open up to the other countries. He also is looking for some crew members for his voyage if he manages to get the treaty to pass. The man asks Sam if he wants to see more of the world, and then he asks Sam prove himself worthy of his crew by doing these mission/quests that'll require you to explore the entire island.
*this would be where the tutorials come into play, and where you get a taste of what the world is like.

After proving your worth, the Captain expresses much delight seeing how he managed to get the king/queen to allow him to explore the world. The captain welcome you to his crew, on the first night of the voyage, the crew celebrates their escape from limitations. But then there was an accident in the gun powder/cannon room of the ship, a candle is accidentally knocked over. The ship catches fire and explodes. After the incident, Sam is the sole survivor. Sam would eventually drift onto a shore near a village. This forces Sam to continue to do his captain's mission to explore the world and its wonders. Sam may have to start back at square one but this time, Sam has knowledge and determination.

*And that's the intro. Not to mention this will also allow us to put in some more creative stories in the game. Can you imagine how many people we can put in this world, and we can tie a story to each one. That's a lot of missions!

[smirkytrick]

Some more images I think might be good. Please tell me what you think of them.

Airships:





Submarines:




Misc:

Those would fit perfectly into the world. Nice!

[Koenig]

I like it, and while I think it could use some revisions it still strike a cord deer to my heart. It reminds me of an old saying: "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime"

Though I still have a few concerns about the plot. If the Captain is under the king/queens jurisdiction, how then did he get a ship to begin with? Likewise, why did he and his crew not just leave? On the existing note, how exactly does he or sam convince them to let them leave? Once again, I like your story, but not all of it is clicking just with me just yet.

A personal suggestion: Could we make it so that rather killing off the entire crew, many of them are instead swept away by the sea? This would give the player a "Reason" to sale the sea, but not a pressing one. The player would want to find the crew for Sam. (Considering if they survived past the tutoiral, they are probably already washed up somewhere-Alive, but unharmed; negating the need of urgency)

[smirkytrick]

I like it, and while I think it could use some revisions it still strike a cord deer to my heart. It reminds me of an old saying: "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime"

YES! That was what I was going for!

Though I still have a few concerns about the plot. If the Captain is under the king/queens jurisdiction, how then did he get a ship to begin with? Likewise, why did he and his crew not just leave? On the existing note, how exactly does he or sam convince them to let them leave? Once again, I like your story, but not all of it is clicking just with me just yet.

Well, We could say that he was a wealthy man that built the ship himself. And for your 2nd question: You could say that he was a charmer, this part of the story was based on how Christopher Columbus convinced the the king and queen of Spain to fund his exploration. And according to legend, Columbus flirted with the queen quite a bit to ensure his funding.

A personal suggestion: Could we make it so that rather killing off the entire crew, many of them are instead swept away by the sea? This would give the player a "Reason" to sale the sea, but not a pressing one. The player would want to find the crew for Sam. (Considering if they survived past the tutoiral, they are probably already washed up somewhere-Alive, but unharmed; negating the need of urgency)

Actually, I have a few ideas for missions that involves reuniting with several crew members and eventually become a part of your crew after completing missions. And that is a good reason, I like it.

*Also, one other thing I wanted to throw at you. I kinda slipped up in the story with Sam. I didn't want to make Sam's gender known. Mainly because it would be easier and more flexible to work with a gender less character.

[Koenig]

What do you mean by known?

[smirkytrick]

What do you mean by known?

In the story, I accidentally referred Sam to "him" or "he" etc. I didn't mean to do that.

[Koenig]

But what does that mean in regards to the game itself? Will the player be giving a choice of playing a boy or girl, or is the story itself just undecided on the gender?

I am confusing myself with such thoughts.

[smirkytrick]

But what does that mean in regards to the game itself?  Will the player be giving a choice of playing a boy or girl, or is the story itself just undecided on the gender?

I am confusing myself with such thoughts.

Sorry about the confusion. the gender thing doesn't really matter. The reason was because I was thinking about putting in like a marriage thing like in skyrim, but know that I think about it it probably would kinda get in the way of the game.

Lets just make it to where the player just chooses the gender to keep it simple.

[smirkytrick]

Ok, for simplicity sake, let's just keep Sam a guy.

[smirkytrick]

Here are some concepts that I did for Sam's head.

What do you think? Personally, I think I need to keep at it some.

[Koenig]

I would agree with that assessment. I get the impression that Sam is the image of a young and sailor-y person, however his current design does not sit well with me.
He seems more like that strange person you would want to stay away from at all costs...That said, I know I could not draw any better.

[Koenig]

Despite pointing out the fact I am a bad artist; here is a windows paint version I tried to make. Keep in mind that skin tone, hair color, and the like are all assumptions.

[Koenig]

Screw it, my drawing skills suck. Instead I will use the limited but acceptable automatic drawing skills of RPG maker!



Unfortunately, RPG maker ha the side effect of making all characters look like they were ripped from an anime.

[smirkytrick]

Well, we can agree on one thing, we both imagined him with redish brownish hair.

[Koenig]

Lol.

[smirkytrick]

Okay, here's attempt #2

[Koenig]

Looking better, but If this is the direction Sam is leaning towards, I am not sure if I like it. He seems more like the annoying "chubby" side kick rather than a character I would want to play as. Granted, this is built on years of stereo types, but it is response my mind renders none the less.

No offense is intended.

[smirkytrick]

Looking better, but If this is the direction Sam is leaning towards, I am not sure if I like it. He seems more like the annoying "chubby" side kick rather than a character I would want to play as. Granted, this is built on years of stereo types, but it is response my mind renders none the less.

No offense is intended.

Non taken, I know what you are talking about, some of those do look kinda chubby. I was using Raz's head from psychonauts as a reference. But that didn't turn out right. I'll keep at it and will show some results tomorrow.

[Koenig]

Might I suggest going with the vertically oval design rather the horizontal one? (By which is mean the general direction of which the oval of their head is sitting on their neck) While it is true that most cartoonish characters use this design, the games of said characters are rarely as ambitious as what we have been tossing around.

On the flip side, I secretly hope to avoid unneeded comparisons to the Wind Waker and Toon link.

[smirkytrick]

You mean like egg-shaped? or just regular circle?

[Koenig]

I would say a cross between the two. An egg shape that gives a standard range of artistic basis and familiarity, while being round enough to invoke a sense of cartoon animation.

Untill we get a talented artist or someone who fits that description; it may be hard to convey what we have in mind with each other via art. If possible, we should try to explain our idea's through words rather than relying solely on pictures. On that note; would you mind explaining Sam's personality? Such information would give an understanding of how he will act with or without the artistic information available.

[smirkytrick]

I would say a cross between the two. An egg shape that gives a standard range of artistic basis and familiarity, while being round enough to invoke a sense of cartoon animation.

Gotcha

Untill we get a talented artist or someone who fits that description; it may be hard to convey what we have in mind with each other via art.  If possible, we should try to explain our idea's through words rather than relying solely on pictures.

We have the vision, we just got to go through a lot of trial and error to find what we truly need. For example, did you know when Tim Schafer was making Psychonauts, Raz was at one point an Ostrich? Just goes to show that we just need to keep trying till we hit our mark.

On that note; would you mind explaining Sam's personality? Such information would give an understanding of how he will act with or without the artistic information available.

Sam's personality... Well he doesn't talk much, also he's very curious and adventurous. When he was on the streets, he didn't think much about what the world had to offer, he thought that he will spend the rest of his days in that xenophobic island doing the same thing every day. It wasn't until he met the captain, who would tell him stories about the possibilities of what the world would have to offer, that Sam's starts showing interest in the outside world. Sam respects the captain for seeing potential in him and Sam would also love to listen to the stories about the things that the captain and his crew might discover. Before Sam met the captain, Sam didn't really felt like he had calling or a use. But after meeting the captain, he quickly changed his outlook on himself. Now he wanted to live life to the fullest, and if he was going to die he would make sure it wouldn't be on that island. For he was no longer a man of the country, he was now a man of the world.

*may need some revising but you get the general idea

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